Marin Alsop’s resume is almost impossible to summarize briefly. She was music director of the Baltimore Symphony Orchestra from 2007 to 2021 and principal conductor of the São Paulo State Symphony in Brazil from 2012 to 2019. Currently she is chief conductor of the Vienna Radio Symphony Orchestra; artistic director and chief conductor of the Polish National Radio Symphony; principal guest conductor of the Philharmonia Orchestra in London; principal guest conductor of the Philadelphia Orchestra; chief conductor of the Ravinia Festival in Chicago, and music director of the National Orchestral Institute and Festival at the University of Maryland. It’s a stellar, remarkable career.
It has also been a journey of advocating for classical music, of supporting young people, and—especially—of working tirelessly for women in our profession. It is for all of those reasons—her artistry, her advocacy, and her history as a change leader—that this year we are thrilled to give her the highest honor of the League and the orchestra profession, the Gold Baton.
Marin follows in the footsteps of many amazing conductors who have received the Gold Baton over the decades, including Leonard Bernstein, Leopold Stokowski, Eugene Ormandy, Pierre Boulez, Michael Tilson Thomas, Thomas Wilkins, and—appropriately, given that the League’s National Conference is in Salt Lake City this year—Maurice Abravanel, the longtime music director of the Utah Symphony.
SIMON WOODS: I want to start this discussion with Maurice Abravanel. Most people probably don’t realize that there’s a personal connection between you and Abravanel and the Utah Symphony.
MARIN ALSOP: There’s a deep personal connection, because my dad was from Murray, Utah. He played violin, flute, clarinet, and saxophone, and Maurice Abravanel gave him his first job, playing violin. But he also doubled on bass clarinet in the Utah Symphony. He told me, “Well, if it’s a big bass clarinet solo. I play bass clarinet that week, and if they need violins, I play violin.” It was Maurice who told him, “You’re too talented to stay here. You have to go to New York and pursue a career.” That prompted my Dad to study in New York, and he became concertmaster of the New York City Ballet Orchestra. He followed my mother, whom he had met at a summer music festival. I grew up in the orchestral world with my parents. My mother was a cellist, and they belonged for couple of seasons to the Tulsa Symphony, and then the Buffalo Philharmonic. They did get around a bit before settling in New York.
I think that U.S. orchestras are without a doubt the great orchestras of the world. It saddens me that there aren’t more Americans as music directors of the great American orchestras. But it’s always a joy for me to work with American orchestras. My relationship with the Philadelphia Orchestra goes back many years—they gave me one of my very first subscription concert engagements when I was 30, and they’ve always believed in me. It’s very nice to come full circle with that relationship.
I think that U.S. orchestras are without a doubt the great orchestras of the world. There’s an independence of spirit, a very high level of technical proficiency.
WOODS: Is there anything specific that distinguishes American orchestras? You’ve worked a lot in Europe. You had a long relationship with the São Paulo orchestra. What is it that makes American orchestras American?
ALSOP: There’s an independence of spirit. There’s a very high level of technical proficiency. Go to an audition for one of these orchestras, and you’re blown away by the candidates—the level of auditionees is so high and so competitive. It’s technical and artistic excellence that really defines American orchestras. I wouldn’t limit that to the top orchestras; you can go to small cities and find very proficient, very competent, and very engaged orchestras. I think back to my first music director position, at the Eugene Symphony in Oregon. That was one of the most rewarding artistic experiences I had. They were wonderfully enthusiastic and supportive. Sometimes it’s the smaller community orchestras that exhibit this kind of passion.
WOODS: The League has 650 orchestra members, and you’ve got to go pretty far down that list before you stop finding orchestras that can turn in superb performances of major repertoire works. Do you find yourself adapting when working with orchestras in different continents in different styles, or do you show up as who you are, with your own personal way of working?
ALSOP: It’s a little bit of both. I am who I am, so I don’t try to affect any kind of change in that, but for me it’s important to at least understand the trajectory of an orchestra, the work, pace, the run-up to a concert. Whether I go to Vienna, where I have substantial rehearsal time, or to London, where I have much less rehearsal time, I try to adapt. Instead of going into an orchestra and trying to impose something, I find it, at least for me, much more successful to try to identify where their strengths are and build on those.
Marin Alsop with Leonard Bernstein, one of her mentors, and the Tanglewood Music Center Orchestra at Tanglewood, 1989.
WOODS: The role of the conductor is essentially the same, whichever continent you’re on. The role of the music director, however, is definitely not the same. Can you talk about the difference between being music director or principal conductor in, say, Vienna, to being music director of an orchestra like the Baltimore Symphony? American orchestras demand way more from their music directors beyond the stage.
ALSOP: It’s a completely different experience and far different level of responsibility and engagement. I hope that my positions in Europe and Brazil benefited from my experience in the United States, because as music director, I’m a very hands-on, deeply committed community person. That is not expected at all, I would say, in Europe or South America. It emanates, probably, from the fundamental funding differences. As music director, we really need to be the ambassador for the orchestra in terms of donors and sponsors and gifting, because we’re dependent on that, whereas in Vienna it’s a government-subsidized orchestra. Same in São Paulo, although this is now shifting a bit. I think I’ve been able to help all of the orchestras adapt a bit more toward the American model, although thankfully they won’t have to go full force in that direction.
I’ve always been struck by the lack of diversity in American orchestras, probably in orchestras worldwide. What is the reason behind that?
WOODS: That seems like a good pivot to talk about the Baltimore Symphony Orchestra. One of the most remarkable things in Baltimore is the OrchKids program, which you are very passionate about. In this country, we’re simply not able to rely on music education in schools, especially not for those in underprivileged communities. Could you talk about what led to OrchKids?
ALSOP: I’ve always been struck by the lack of diversity in American orchestras, probably in orchestras worldwide. Is it about access? Is it about talent? Is it about opportunity? Cultural reference? What is the reason behind that?
When I took over in Baltimore, which is a predominantly African American city, I was struck by the fact that there’s one Black musician in the orchestra. She’s a wonderful cellist. She’s been there for 40 years. So I proposed that we do an experiment, which led to OrchKids. Starting a program like this requires a lot of funding, and the organization was rightfully nervous about having to fundraise in a huge way for another program. Luckily, I won the MacArthur Fellowship and came into some money that I didn’t expect. I thought, Okay, this is why I won it. And this is what I can use my money for. I was able to give the seed money to start the OrchKids program, and that immediately generated matching funds from several wealthy individuals and wonderful friends of mine in the community. I started with one small school in West Baltimore with 30 first-graders, and it became quickly clear to us that the music was not going to be the main obstacle in these environments—the kids didn’t have healthy food to eat. We immediately pivoted and got some organic meals served every day to the kids. And that continues. Schoolwork was a problem, so we started a mentoring program with some of the corporations in Baltimore. And that continues today. What became immediately clear was that for the kids, music was going to be a route to a whole-child approach to studying an art form.
Growing up, it wasn’t until I found the violin that I became absorbed and passionate about music. So I wanted every kid in the program to pick their own instrument and not to have it imposed on them. For six weeks they try each different family of instrument until they find one they like. We got some instruments donated, and we brought in some basses. I’ll never forget this young man, Tyrone—he just ran over to the bass like it was his long-lost brother or something. He knew immediately: this is my instrument.
I’m passionate that all musicians should know how to improvise, how to compose, and should have as broad a music education as possible. All the OrchKids compose and know how to improvise, and this is wonderful to see. I couldn’t have anticipated in 2008 when we started the program that some of those 30 kids that we started with would graduate from high school, go to university, and study music. The program, while of course it is about music, was a haven for the kids after school, a safe place. It was a place of community, where they were heard and applauded. It gave them opportunities to travel, to be seen. They need to be recognized for the unique individuals that they are.
I always thought every kid is born a genius, and somehow society just sucks it out of them. This is a manifestation of that, that these kids are all extraordinary young people, and they’re succeeding in music and other realms. They’ve taken the skills that they’ve learned in OrchKids—how to motivate themselves, how to budget your time, how to work under stress, how to listen to others. All of these things come into play in other disciplines. I think that they’re going to become the leaders of tomorrow.
I always know an OrchKid right away, because they call me Miss Marin. I fully expect to go to a doctor in five years, and she’ll say, ‘Hello, Miss Marin.’ I see kids as leaders.
Marin Alsop with the Baltimore Symphony Orchestra, where she was music director from 2007 to 2021, and made history as the first woman music director of a major American orchestra.
Marin Alsop leads an OrchKids concert, the free program she founded at the Baltimore Symphony for children from the city’s marginalized communities.
WOODS: What are the components of OrchKids? Is it lessons as well as coming together in ensembles and an orchestra?
ALSOP: There are all kinds of ensembles, ranging from jazz band to orchestral and bucket band for percussion. There’s choir and all kinds of opportunities. We try to give them as broad an introduction and education as possible. We keep them really busy. Last time I was chatting with Nick Skinner, who’s the wonderful executive director of OrchKids, they play upwards of 50 concerts a year, in the community and around, and they travel far and wide. Several of the kids have been to Europe.
It’s the gift of imagination. Without imagination, what do you have? It’s a pretty dull outlook if we don’t invest in our children’s imaginations.
WOODS: The other area where you’ve had such an extraordinary impact is all your advocacy for the roles that women play, particularly as conductors. On the one hand, we have a very long way to go. On the other hand, it is tremendously inspiring to see this current generation of young women conductors who are coming to fruition. It’s a whole different level in the public eye than we would have had even a decade ago, and honestly, I cannot imagine that it would have happened without you and all the work you put into your Taki Alsop Conducting Fellowship program.
ALSOP: I’m thrilled to see the incredible talent that’s coming up through the ranks as guest conductors, as music directors, as chief conductors, assistant conductors. Conducting is unlike being an instrumentalist, because you can’t practice your instrument unless you’re given an opportunity. With so few opportunities in the past, it was very difficult for women to achieve their highest personal level. But what’s happening is that women are being given and taking opportunities. That is reflected in their skill set, because the more you do something, the more experience you get; the more you have a chance to fail at something, the better you get at it. Between our awardees and our mentees, we have over 60 women conductors from 40 different nationalities, and they now have their own community. This is extremely impactful. They are able to talk about the challenges of being conductors, the challenges of raising a family while traveling, the challenges of which cuts to do in a score. Twenty-nine of them are music directors, and they are in positions to be able to engage each other and interact. It’s been incredibly moving to watch that community grow.
I’m thrilled to see the incredible talent that’s coming up through the ranks of women as guest conductors, as music directors, as chief conductors, assistant conductors. There were so few opportunities in the past.
These women are not only super talented, the vast majority of them are also committed to their communities in very deep ways. They’ve started tens of initiatives, all kinds of different projects. They’re all about connecting orchestra to community, and I think that’s really the way of the future.
Marin Alsop takes a bow with the New York Philharmonic at a recent concert at David Geffen Hall.
WOODS: When you look back at what you experienced yourself as a young artist, and some of the things you’ve talked about around prejudice and discrimination, do you think things have gotten better?
ALSOP: Oh, yes! Hugely.
WOODS: To what extent does that cohort of amazing women conductors still face some of those same things that you faced? I’m assuming that you believe this is not completed work.
ALSOP: Look at the rosters of the orchestras of the world, and you realize the work has barely even started. That’s a fact. But I’m very encouraged when a young woman will say, ‘I don’t feel any hesitation in going into this field. I don’t feel that I’m being discriminated against.’ That is more the position of young women today. That said, it’s surprising for them when they suddenly hit a wall of the old world that has rather archaic reservations about what women can and can’t do. Sometimes they’re more shocked than I am, because they haven’t experienced it. Things change; things stay the same. I hope we’ve passed the tipping point to progress, and I hope we can lock arms and move forward, especially through these difficult times.
It’s not only about women, but also about American conductors. We have to remind ourselves that the American orchestral business was formed by European emigrees, and we still haven’t really escaped that. We could also talk about repertoire. I go to some orchestras, and they say they haven’t played any American music since the last time I was there. As an American, there’s some reverence that I have or at least I had for America and for American music, and maybe someday that will come back.
WOODS: You alluded to the complexities of this moment. Without straying too far into political territory, it feels like the elephant in the room is that there are big question marks about our public life, freedom of expression in the arts, and federal support. What role does music have in a very turbulent time?
ALSOP: The great thing for me about music is that it’s nonpartisan, that I can sit with a friend who has a completely different political viewpoint, and we can both listen to a piece of music and come away changed. Maybe we have completely differing opinions of it. But they’re all valid.
Music is a great connecting point. As human beings, we’re born hot-wired for music, and that’s something we share innately.
Music is a great connecting point. As human beings, we’re born hot-wired for music, and that’s something we share innately. Music can offer respite and refuge in difficult times, so it serves many purposes, but I think as soon as it becomes part of a political drama it loses some of its greatness. I understand about making a stand and all of those things, and I make my own stands in my own way, but I try not to do them using the music as that vehicle.
WOODS: We’ve talked about what you’ve done as an agent of change. But I don’t want to lose track of the fact that first and foremost, you’re an artist. When you think about your own conducting trajectory, what remains still to be done for you? I’m not so much thinking here about career, I’m thinking musically. What musical Everests still lie ahead that you haven’t yet conquered?
ALSOP: Some of the musical mountains that have come to me have been sudden and surprising. In my work in Brazil, I discovered a whole repertoire. I had no knowledge of Brazilian classical music or Brazilian popular music—and it’s amazing stuff. I had a swing band for 20 years, and I love a lot of crossover music, this blending of popular and “serious” music. Brazil was a treasure trove on that front. My work in Vienna through the radio orchestra brought me into contact with a lot of contemporary Austrian and German repertoire, which is a language that I wasn’t that facile in and I’ve really enjoyed getting to know. Now I’m working in Poland, and there’s a whole cadre of composers whose names I know, and maybe I had done a piece here or there, but it’s absolutely fantastic music. I have to say, the musical mountains come up naturally and it’s really a great joy. I would probably like to do a little bit more opera in the future. But I’m so happy with my career and the ability to work with great musicians and great orchestras and do the repertoire I want to do.
There’s so much out there, and so much to be experienced and explored. I don’t think I’ll be bored a single day in my life.
